Fluff and Stuff...

[vikx]

Here we go again.

Since receiving so many good Flipper thread ideas from you all, I decided to begin another "vender" thread. This is meant to help everyone and is in no way derogatory toward those that enjoy decorating.

There are many out there that are selling trailers that have been Fluffed. That means they have damage disguised or hidden, pretty curtains and often nice upholstery, sometimes cute paint schemes inside and shiny paint out. Oh, and those gorgeous Coker Whitewalls!

However, these same sellers are claiming Restored, Refurbished (a little less than restored) and/or Excellent condition. There are no pictures of structural repairs, no evidence of system repairs and certainly past leaks, fixed now.

Why complain you ask? Well, they are pulling the fluff over buyers' eyes. They are not totally forthright about the road worthy condition of the trailer and possible problems. Pretty sells.

The new word is: Refurbished. Fluffers don't like Restored; refurbished can mean just about anything...

First hand, I have seen trailer bodies off the frame (strewn across the freeway), gas leaks, burned electrical fixtures and mold. These things are dangerous. The Fluff could hurt you and your loved ones.

Stuff I have discovered:
1. All the leaks are "fixed".
2. All new interior; paint, curtains, upholstery!
3. Wrinkles in the painted wood at the vent and windows
4. Odd new paneling here and there.
5. Exterior paint tends to look good from 20 feet but the closer you get, the more flaws are noticeable. Eyebrows and inlets painted rather than cleaned, hail damage, that sort of thing.
6. Appliances are in place but not tested... ye olde "no tank" excuse. Right....
7. Wood is flakey and powdery at the bottom.
8. Skin sags and wrinkles downward over the tongue/frame.

My question for you all: How can we inform and remain positive? All restored trailers have some fluff, right? So what is the difference between Fluff and Stuff vs a true restoration? More Tell-Tale signs?

Thanks again, this is important.

[dawgpound]

To name just a few. This is what I have called Lip Stick and Rouge!

A fresh coat of paint over rippled paneling.

A fresh coat of Kool Seal on the roof when the rest of the trailer hasn't been washed and cleaned.

Heavy potpourri or other scent in the cabin to mask mildew odors.

Use of angle brackets used on the outside corners to secure the side walls to the back / front.

Rope trim on the inside corners to hide splits: sides & roof, sides & front, sides & back.

Gunked up silicone along the roof trim and or windows and claiming that the leaks are fixed.

[lopo]

This brings up a big question I'm wrestling with. My 72 Compact is in very good original condition. Hooray! The paneling which is dark brown rather than the grayish white or beige that was common then. Part of me thinks, wow, keep this, and how it will help so much on reselling it someday if I ever decide to do so, but on the other hand, that leaves me stuck with it even though I might prefer a lighter color. I'll admit that I looked and looked for a trailer that was truly vintage and had the birch paneling but bought this because every other thing about it is just so nice. What would be nice is a list of impartial appraisers who could verify conditions before redecorating happens. Just a thought.

[hntnhrd]

Just my opinon, rather than screwing what is in your words very good original condition, leave it be for a while. See if it grows on you or made your eye wanders and in a couple months or years you find one that is origanl birch walls. And you go to sell your 72 and a buyer says "OH i would love this but the walls are painted and I would really like it if it was original". No that I have said that I ripped out most of the original paneling on our 66. Replaced it with mahogany paneling and amber shelac. We had to pull down the ceiling and all the back walls. Cabinettes were falling off the ceiling. Will my eye wander at some point? already has. I have a 72 Sante Fe sitting in the yard now and trying to get more info on a 1940s camper that is listed on CL!!!. But our 66 will probably be with us a long time!
When it all boils down to it It is your camper and you need to enjoy it. Some of them are like classic cars but most are for enjoyment. HAnging out with a group of friends and showing off your indivuality. (Spelling??) Take peoples opinions, mix them all up in big bowl and then do what you want!!

Now on to the original post here. I like the idea if helping educate people, but just as buying a used car or even a house, Some people just shouldn't do it. I am not trying to be mean or negative. I would love a 69 chevelle. I dont know the first thing about tuning a carburator or changing a timing belt!!!. I dont feel I can honestly know what I am looking at to buy a classic car. So i don't. Can a I learn? absolutely but won't jump in till I do. Now I can go look at a 100+ year old farm house and know what it is going to take to fix it up. But I have done it half a dozen times. Walked away from twice as many because the price was way to high. Stole a couple also as the price was dirt cheap.

I think a great post here would be "Problems found with Vintage trailers" We can list before and after pictures and various issues everyone has found. I have searched this forum High and low and found tons of valuable info on all kinds of subjects.

I really enjoy hunting. I actually have an outfitting business here in montana, where I take people into the mountains on horseback fro weeks at a time to hunt for elk. The Hunting forums on the internet are nothing but negative, I can't stand it anymore. People attacking each other all the time because of "you dont do it my way!!". I really like this site becasue everyone seems happy for each other. Do your thing. You can have a fully restored Canned ham or a rolling rattle trap held together with Duct taper and bungy cords (by the way the one thing you will never hear a redneck say is " duct tape won't fix that.").

There are some Classified listing that come on here that seem crazy to me but it the seller wants say 10K for a 5K camper so be it. I know I posted earlier that I didnt think it was right to slam someones listing. Still dont. but if someone emails you ouside of the post as to what you think let them know. I dont feel bargman locks on ebay are worth 200.00. But some people do and continue to buy them. But I dont email the sellers and tell them that.

Anyway I really like coming here for info and dont want to tick people off. This whole vintage camper thing is way to cool and I can't wait to hit the campgrounds this summer!!!!!Cabin fever is getting the best of us all!!!!

[lopo]

It sure is, hntnhrd, even those of us in Florida. Your neck o' the woods is on my list for this summer! And thanks for your thoughts on the walls. I agree with you, and I think I will leave them brown for awhile and liven it up in other ways. My countertop is in great shape, too, but so boring. And the base cabinet is made of some of that pressed paperboard stuff that's not as, what's the word, smooth and impermeable and the walls and wall cupboards so I think I'll paint them and replace the hardware.

I'm lucky that I can be doing improvements and decorating rather than repairs so early in the game, especially because my skill set is not with tools. My goal is not to modernize, other than a/c which is the one concession I'm not interested in making, but to simplify so that I don't spend my travel time trying to deal with and repair systems I don't understand. I don't want to get off the road each night and have to juggle the table arrangement to make a bed, so out with the dinette and in with a bed with a good mattress, out with the overhead cot even though it's in perfect shape, skip the 12V stuff and use an icebox or even a good cooler, and just a port potty or probably a hassock toilet with bags that are easier to deal with than emptying the port potty. LP gas to my little stove and oven because I like to cook breakfast.

It really is "to each his own," isn't it? And I suspect that's exactly what we love about our vintage campers.

[LittleVintageTrailer]

Lopo, my only recommendation for any changes you want to make like removing the bunk is to save it just in case you ever do sell it so that the new owners have the option of re-installing it.

Before I knew what I was doing (sometimes still don't) I threw out an original icebox to our then Astroflyte. I kicked myself for a long time afterward trying to figure out what in the world was I thinking? So I won't make that mistake again and will save anything that is original, no matter how minor. Unless of course it's something that is falling apart beyond repair.

[lopo]

So far so good, but I'm having to turn a spare bedroom into storage for it all. I've even saved the foam cushions at this point. I put them out at the street but then went out later and retrieved them. My husband tends to keep everything he can and I tend to "declutter" way too fast. I sure wish I could buy that original icebox from you.

[diamondrelics]

Vikx, what you are describing is what we in the car world refer to as a 'turd in a fur coat" also known as a 20/20.. it looks good from 20 feet or at 20mph..scarey isn't it?

[vikx]

Good responses here!

Lopo, I agree; leave the paneling for a while. It isn't so bad to paint a 70s trailer. I say make it yours after thinking on it.

Save everything! I'm as guilty as the rest of you on tossing things. Even totally ruined parts can be used as a pattern... Luckily, I have an old trailer to store things in. LOL.

Really like the idea of Problems/Solutions. I wonder if we could link to posts? For instance, Gone Kayaking's thread on her Shasta rebuild and others? The blog section does have some great links.

20/20-that's the problem. Having friends all over the nation who have been blinded by Fluff, it's hard for me to be nice. Many of these people aren't capable of the needed repairs. I'm thinking a properly restored trailer (more initial $$$) would have been a better way to go.

Fortunately, it's pretty easy to spot a Fluffer; takes around 6 months for word to get around the net. Unfortunately, there are buyers who were cheated. Another description of sneaky repairs: Quick and Dirty.

[lopo]

Does it seem like to you like the prices have really gone up in the past year or so? I think searching for one, like on craigslist, without the word "vintage" might be better. More to slog through, but throwing the word "vintage" in there indicates to me that the seller thinks he's got something with collectible value - quite different from the people who have one sitting in their yard thinking it's time to get rid of it.

[hntnhrd]

lopo, Yes and yes Just dont tell everyone the secret on the second part

[vikx]

Prices have gone sky high! There's a few good trailers out there, but most are overpriced junk that has been in the back forty for years.

My latest quest was a 54 Terry, complete with a stove pipe bricked into the front window. Mouse nasty fell out of the cupboards if opened and it smelled. The guy was firm at $1500.

I am shocked at the audacity of these people.

[mary1960]

I think prices have gone up since Sisters on the Fly among other groups have gotten such nationwide exposure. Thanks Oprah *lol*

There are some great deals out there, don't get me wrong, sometimes we just have to educate the sellers!

[LittleVintageTrailer]

I think the prices are a matter of supply and demand. More and more people are getting interested in vintage trailers and camping is appealing to families/couples/indivuals as it's still cheaper than staying in a hotel. Not to mention just the "going on a road trip adventure" factor. I think the more people that get involved in vintage trailers, join groups such as TCT or SOTF, the less vintage trailers there are to be had. So it makes sense that the prices would go up. It's just like anything else in the supply/demand equation. The day that a significant number of people are no longer interested in vintage trailers we'll see the price drop like rocks. But I don't see that happening anytime soon. In fact likely the opposite as more and more people discover the charm of these little gems.

[vikx]

I agree, Kel. There's some very nice ones still available and well worth the money. Hopefully this thread will educate buyers and give confidence when buying a good one...