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Post by LittleVintageTrailer on Mar 25, 2012 14:31:37 GMT -5
I didn't want to over take the other poster as I'm not sure if they are referring to the edge seams or just windows. In any case, I need some directions on how to replace butyl tape on the seams. I'm going to need to do this soon. At the latest, but the Fall. Can anyone give me a play by play of how to do this? Do I just remove all screws, pull the seam apart, scrape off old butyl tape, clean and put on new butyl tape and then re-screw all the corner seams back together? Here is a picture. I'll post a few more so you can see how some of my butyl tape is starting to look in pretty sad shape. Attachments:
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Post by LittleVintageTrailer on Mar 25, 2012 14:32:09 GMT -5
Another pic. Attachments:
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Post by LittleVintageTrailer on Mar 25, 2012 14:33:44 GMT -5
Last one. But you can see on this pics how the butyl tape is aging faster in some areas than others and I am feeling a bit anxious about it and trying to figure out if this is a job I could do by myself??? Or is this something to let the shop handle? Also where do you buy butyl tape? I tried hardware but no luck there. Attachments:
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Post by dawgpound on Mar 25, 2012 14:35:43 GMT -5
Hey Kel,
You just stated it perfectly! Peeling back the folded & nailed skin can be tricky. Just take your time.
Ross
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Post by lopo on Mar 25, 2012 14:41:02 GMT -5
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Post by LittleVintageTrailer on Mar 25, 2012 14:51:29 GMT -5
I'm very nervous too! Do you just pull the skin outward a little (enough to be able to get the tape in there) from the trailer once it's unscrewed? I'm scared of ruining my skin.
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Post by LittleVintageTrailer on Mar 25, 2012 14:52:43 GMT -5
Thanks for the link for the Butyl tape! Anyone have any idea how many rolls I will need to do a Shasta Compact?
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Post by lopo on Mar 25, 2012 15:10:15 GMT -5
The tape is between the skin and the trim piece, right? So you unscrew the trim piece, remove it, scrape off the gunky old putty with a plastic scraper, from both the skin and the trim piece, clean it up with ?? something like alcohol (help here, please, someone), put the new butyl tape on the trim piece, and place it back like it was, matching up the screw holes. The tape is covering them on the inside of the trim piece. (This is a good time to polish the trim piece if it needs it.) Assumably when you screw the trim piece back on, it pulls the skins back together. The tape isn't expensive so I bought two rolls of it, planning to redo the tape on all the windows, too, but it's still soft on most windows so I've just done the eyebrow over the door, the rear window, and plan to do the corner pieces next.
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Post by LittleVintageTrailer on Mar 25, 2012 15:12:10 GMT -5
Here is the worse area near the front (door side) upper corner. You know it's bad if you can see daylight through the seam! I'm surprised it hasn't leaked but I think it's because what's left of the tape is stuck to the trailer and not the corner edge. Oh my gosh, just saw how many screws there are Man, this will take till the middle of never-wary....*sigh* Attachments:
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Post by LittleVintageTrailer on Mar 25, 2012 15:15:51 GMT -5
Lopo, that is what it looks like to me. Doesn't look like you'd have to pull any skin out, just removing the trim piece, clean off old stuff, re-tape and screw it back on. It sounds easy and then I saw just how many screws are out on there.
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Post by dawgpound on Mar 25, 2012 15:37:04 GMT -5
Once the trim has been removed, I always double check the butyl tape that is between the side wall skin and the folded over roof skin. If it looks to be fully intact, I don't mess with it. If it looks damaged, big cracks or missing areas, that section needs to be replaced.
Remove the aluminum trim, clean the back side and go ahead and polish them up. This way they are ready to reinstall, when needed.
Be very careful not to damage the folded over skin, when removing the nails or staples. I generally will NOT peel back the skin any longer then about 12-16 inch area at a time. Carefully use the blunt end of a blade screwdriver and chip away the damaged and dry butyl tape. ( A blunt edge will not damage the aluminum as bad, if it gets away from you, like the edge of a knife or chisel. ) No worries if you can't remove it all the way to the bare aluminum. Just get 80%-90% of it removed. Dust and clean the area, apply new butyl tape and reattach the roof, Don't trim the excess tape just yet. Apply new butyl tape to the trim and start reattaching it, using Stainless Steel screws. Now you can trim the excess tape and take a slightly damp white rag, with mineral spirits, and clean up the butyl tape residue.
I go one step further, between the roof skin, front & rear wall skins and the TOP of the trim, I take the corner of a putty knife and scrap out the butyl tape. Clean with a mineral spirit rag and then dry it. Then I put a nice bead of clear LEXEL Sealant in the newly created void between the trim and the roof skin, front & rear wall skins.
One more tip, when working with butyl tape. Put it the freezer for about 45 minutes. It will be much easier to work with.
Hope this helps.
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Post by LittleVintageTrailer on Mar 25, 2012 16:03:14 GMT -5
I think I'm in over my head with this because without a visual I just don't get what you mean about the "folded over" area and why the skin needs pulling back. All I see is a L shaped trim piece that goes from the rear, up and over and down the front with a million screws holding it on. Sandwiched between that and the skin of the trailer I see the old putty. So I'm totally confused where the fold over and need for peeling skin back comes into play.
Mine trim is painted...hmm, wonder how bad I'd end up tearing it up. Also the screws are all painted as well either yellow or white. Do you recommend not re-using the same screws?
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Post by dawgpound on Mar 25, 2012 16:19:50 GMT -5
This is the best picture that I have and I had to blow it up, so it might be grainy. I peeled back the skin and added butyl tape and then reattached the front wall skin. Just waiting on replacement pieces of trim to arrive. The way the the Shasta were built is: the skins were stapled to the side walls first, then the roof skin was set into place. The roof skin has about 1/2" overhang over the side walls. Butyl tape was applied to the top edge of the side wall and then the roof aluminum was "Folded" over the side wall edge and nailed into place. This was Shasta's way of trying to keep out water. Shasta did a MUCH BETTER job then the Serro Scottys. Attachments:
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Post by lopo on Mar 25, 2012 17:11:19 GMT -5
Hopefully, Kel, we won't need to peel back much of the skin up there. If the putty is soft and I don't see gruesome gaps, I'll probably stick to the side trim for now.
Could you get a photo of your trim showing the screws? Mine are all rusty so it's a no-brainer that I take them out, polish up the trim, and replace them with the stainless steel screws I also got from VTS. If yours are painted and look OK, then your trim must be painted, too, so you won't need to polish, and you can probably reuse your screws. (Were they replaced fairly recently or are they ancient?) I went to bed with the covers over my head for a day or two when I first realized what I was up against, and I thought they were "rivets," but to my surprise, there's this dandy little hand tool called a nut driver (I got the 1/4" size and it is perfect), and those screws come out very easily with it and go back in easily, too. The guys all use power tools, but I'm much more comfortable doing it by hand. It's sort of therapeutic, actually, like doing repetitive needlework.
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Post by lopo on Mar 25, 2012 17:13:21 GMT -5
I tried to see in your photos what kind of screws you have, but none of the shots are straight on; however, since they're rounded, you'll be using some type of screwdriver instead of the nut driver like I need. (The heads of mine are hexagonal and don't have slots.)
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Post by LittleVintageTrailer on Mar 25, 2012 17:32:54 GMT -5
Here is a shot of my screws. I'm really hoping I can just re-use them. Would be pretty rude to not be able to as they are all painted the same as the trailer. I think I'm not going to mess with the fold over aspect if I try and do this myself. I'll just make sure the trim on the sides has new butyl tape and leave the roof area up to the restoration guys to tackle. I'm going to get a quote from them and if it isn't too high I may just let them do it. But if not, I'll at least do the sides and my awning rail needs it also. Attachments:
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Post by harrison429 on Mar 25, 2012 18:47:08 GMT -5
We used about 5 rolls of butyl to do our compact ('63 compact under restorations) but that was to do the whole trailer, including the windows etc. We got the butyl from the local rv store, we chose the sticky tan butyl (as opposed to the gray). It is not a hard job, it was one of the easiest I did. I chose to use all new stainless steel screws and love the little pops of silver against my fresh paint job.
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Post by '59PinkDeluxe on Mar 25, 2012 22:02:01 GMT -5
LVT... I just completed replacing my old rotted wood (from the outside in), old rotted framework which required me to take the front and back skin completely off, and reworking all of the aluminum seams with new butyl and new screws. Doing all this without the help of power tools is crazy so get a small battery powered drill that fits you well. It will be priceless. You do not want tendonitis! It hurts!
Ross is right on the butyl procedure for the trim. The only issue is whether or not you will need to remove any skin to replace interior wood rot. If you have to do that, then you probably ought to wait till you talk to your restore guys. Doing the trim is not too hard tho. It is advised that you replace your old #6 screws with #8 stainless steel screws. Don't use the old ones. The new #8's will get a good bite into your framework, as opposed to the old ones which will not hold as well. I could not find stainless screws in any adequate quantity at my local big-box stores so I found a local R & E Fasteners shop which had the #8's in stainless. Stainless is important as it will not react with the aluminum and will not rust. Also, you can probably get them from McMaster Carr (online). Just google it. I also found the little 3/4" twisty nails there.
I feel for you. When you start a restore you are in such a know-nothing vacuum! It's scary to get started but you will have a feeling of such great accomplishment on the things you can do yourself. Good luck! P.S. Rosalie is being painted tomorrow. I can't wait!
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Post by thehorsepeople4 on Mar 25, 2012 22:58:13 GMT -5
You can do this. I used Ross's method and it works fine. Just do one section at a time. The putty tape is very easy to work with...just sticky enough to stay in place. A tip...when I applied new putty under my J rail, I kept the paper on one side of it and used that to press the putty onto the aluminum. I pulled the paper off at a right angle and it didn't pull the putty off. Good luck. [b ]our59deville.blogspot.com/[/b]
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boandsusan
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Christmas parade 2012
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Post by boandsusan on Mar 25, 2012 23:40:25 GMT -5
I agree with pinkdeluxe, after removing the #6 screws, they didn`t grip too well when replacing them, so we up sized to #8s and they really gripped. We did reuse the #6 in the areas that we had replaced with new framing.
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cowcharge
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I suffer from Shastasomiasis.
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Post by cowcharge on Mar 27, 2012 14:54:16 GMT -5
Can someone once and for all authoritatively define "butyl tape" and "putty tape"? It seems like everyone uses the term butyl no matter what they're using. I was under the impression that the old trailers used putty tape, which is also called "mastic" or "plumber's putty", that is grey and comes on a wrinkly paper backing, that feels and sticks and can be hand-shaped like modeling clay, and can be removed, repositioned and reattached. It's more like a clay gasket than a sealant or adhesive. That's what came off my camper, and what I bought at the RV store. And butyl tape is relatively modern, made of "butyl rubber", is extremely squishy and sticky and smeary and un-repositionable, can't be removed without solvents, and is the black stuff used to secure car windshields that makes it so hard to remove the old windshield. Is that correct?
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Post by mtaylo5 on May 29, 2012 16:38:52 GMT -5
I now have the same question as the last poster regarding the official word on butyl tape. I just order a boat load of butyl putting from VTS even though it is not what have the material webbing on back. Can someone please tell me if I need this www.vintagetrailersupply.com/Butyl_Putty_Tape_p/vts-419.htm or if I need something else to line all the skins, windows, drip rails, j-rails, etc. In some cases on the windows there was tape (with white backing) and then a putty type material in the corner. Extra points to whomever replies in a way I can comprehend. Thanks!
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Post by universalexports on May 29, 2012 18:27:19 GMT -5
I used butle tape that has the paper on one side, stick it on and pull the paper off the back then attach the drip rail or whatever you are putting on.
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vikx
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Post by vikx on May 30, 2012 2:03:15 GMT -5
This is the way I see Putty:
Putty tape is the original, old grey standard. It works well and was probably what everyone thought of as "putty" in the good old days.
Today's RV putty tape is a lighter color (almost white), stickier and harder to trim. It seems to be a mix of putty and butyl.
True Butyl tape is grey, extremely sticky and unpleasant to work with. (recognize it by the slick brown paper) If I have an especially leak prone area, I use it. Tacky Tape (TM) is a very thin 1/2" version that works very well on window backframe gaskets.
When re-puttying edge trim, use a rubber hammer to "seat" the trim against the putty and form a seal against the trailer. Some of us also use a thin sealer (NOT silicone) at the top edge to prevent the putty from drying.
Remember, all trailers are prone to leaks. Keep them under cover in the winter months and in heavy rain.
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cowcharge
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I suffer from Shastasomiasis.
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Post by cowcharge on May 30, 2012 2:15:53 GMT -5
Ok, after looking at that link, it appears that the stuff is the old-time putty tape with butyl rubber added. Like the addition of some butyl to old-time mastic putty has made it stickier and more resilient, but not to an extreme. Is this stuff that everyone's talking about when they say they're replacing butyl? All this time I've been thinking people have been using the really sticky black stuff that's so hard to work with and remove, which some cursed PO used on my roof vent. I had to completely redo all my seams due to having to replace a lot of edge framing, and at first couldn't find a way to take apart the roof/side overlap without tearing a lot of the staples through the skin. The staples are so deeply embedded that they are sunk below "sea level", and their grip in the wood is incredible. The best system I came up with (still less than perfect, but I have a hard time believing it's possible to remove such thin aluminum with no damage unless you have trained termites eat around each staple) was after removing the j-channel, I used the tip of a curved linoleum knife to dig most of the putty tape out from between the roof skin and the side skin. This allowed the roof skin some movement, and let me press the skin in with square lineman's pliers and grip the staples. For removing the side skin from the wood, I used the pointy part of a painter's tool (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=painter's+tool&hl=en&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=737&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=10562402493041361971&sa=X&ei=lrrFT76QMMGhgweqq6GDBw&ved=0CI4BEPMCMAA). I tapped the point sideways under each staple with a hammer, and the "shoulders" of the point dragged the staple along the surface, pulling them out of the wood far enough to let me pry them upright and grab them with the same lineman's pliers. If the very tip is bent over sideways a bit, it allows the tip to be parallel to the surface and go under the staple while the other end is angled away from the skin far enough to allow it to be hit with the hammer (I bent the tip by accident, but once it was bent I had much less "tip diving" into the skin and tearing it). Some of the staples wouldn't move sideways, but a lift of the handle while the point was tight inside the staple helped pry one leg straight out of the wood. Attachments:
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Post by shempnbunny on Dec 4, 2012 4:03:50 GMT -5
Wow, LOTS of great info here for us Newbies. THANKS SO MUCH!!!! (yes, I am yelling) 8)
2 questions though: Size and Color of Tape Size: I see VTS offers the 3/4" wide tape only. Is that so the tape fits under the seam trim? Wouldn't the seam be a little better sealed, and maybe provide a little bit more leak insurance, if the tape extended slightly beyond the trim, say 1" wide tape vs 3/4"? I'm not sure how well I could center the tape so it would follow the trim edge nicely, but thought it might be worth the effort....(?) or look like crap..hmmmm
Color: I also see the the tape is offered on the manufacturer's website in White, as well as Grey. Would the White be a better choice? In other words, has anyone had their white paint peel off to reveal the grey tape underneath, or does paint stick to the tape pretty well? I guess if I were to go with a 1" wide tape, this would be a bigger concern.
Thanks again for the help. BTW, the Butyl and Putty Tape Manufacturer website does not help with clarifying the difference between Butyl and Putty tape, other than the Butyl adhesion improves w/ age.
Putty can be applied @ -30F to 180F, while Butyl is for those "warmer days" of -30F to 200F. Any Arizona Summer Brethren able to chime in?? I'll bring the beer, but anything over 210F, I'm headed back to Cali.
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Post by shempnbunny on Dec 4, 2012 4:07:52 GMT -5
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soup
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Post by soup on Dec 4, 2012 5:59:48 GMT -5
I like putty tape better than butyl, it's more forgiving and is thicker too. I think it works better sealing and working with it. You can buy it at any RV service center. You want the 3/4" not 5/8" they try to sell you at 3/4" prices! Watch them! I would probably do this before any painting. With the scraping, wire brushing of old putty tape, by the time you finish with it all, you'll need to paint, if you do it right. It is also recommended on aluminum skinned units that lap sealant is used also after the tape and J rail are installed. Non sag Lap seal on vertical surfaces, self leveling lap seal (Dicor brand is best) on the horizontal surfaces. Let me know how the job goes with the fresh paint. If you are able to reuse the screws due to the being painted with same colors it will be a miracle! Good Luck All! Soup
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vikx
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Post by vikx on Dec 5, 2012 0:33:40 GMT -5
I agree with Soup, RV putty tape in most places. Butyl is excellent for "iffy" prone-to-leak areas. I use it when I need an especially tight and sticky seal. (57 Shasta lower edge trim comes to mind)
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Post by shempnbunny on Dec 5, 2012 19:00:19 GMT -5
Vikx, Sorry if I'm a bit dim-witted, but if Butyl Tape is better for problem areas, and it is available in different thicknesses, wouldn't I be better off going that route vs the Putty and Lap Seal, like Soup suggests? I don't mean to beat this to death, but I only want to perform this task one time. Is the butyl a REAL PITA to deal with? Thanks again.
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