Rotted Framing!!

[cropper2]

Hello. I just took delivery of my new 1972 Shasta 1400 yesterday ("Trixie") and hoped to do only cosmetic updates so that I could be ready to enjoy her this summer. I spent the better part of today cutting away warped and buckled surface laminate and was very pleased to find far less sub-structure damage than I anticipated. That's the good news. The less than good news is what I found in what I had already deemed "the bad corner". Ruh row.

I'm fairly handy, but I'll admit to now feeling intimidated. I posted a bunch of photos in another place (a place I now know is the wrong place), so I'll share a few here and hope that you can help me out. Bo and Susan, I'll go through yours with a fine toothed comb and all others as well.

I knew that I had one bad spot where there used to be a leak. This is what it looked like "before" I started investigating.

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[cropper2]

When I just touched the corner, everything started to fall apart. Even the framing pieces were crumbling, so this is what is looks like now.

I have to make an executive decision. Do I panic now or wait until tomorrow?

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[cropper2]

One last pic up close. I suppose the good news is that the wood is not soft across the whole back or even very far up the corner. But that middle section is just a mess.

I know this is a horrible question to ask at this juncture, but are the "studs" (the framing pieces that are rotted) attached from the outside left metal skin? There appear to be long screws or nails that are coming in from the left (the outside?) through the vertical stud on the left, into the vertical stud on the rear wall. Is that right? Is scares the stuff out of me to start putting holes in the outside. Please feel free to point me to another already posted set of questions/answers. I'll jump up and down with joy for all help. How bad can it be, right? RIGHT!?

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[65callie]

"Ruh row" is the nicest way of describing rot that I have heard, at least at my house! You will find plenty of help here on the board just try to keep a positive attitude. All the work you put into it will be worth it when it's done.

Sorry I can't tell you how to fix this as we were lucky enough to have only a little rot in the back and didn't have to replace as much as it looks like you will have too and I let my husband deal with it alone (I think he appreciated that!). I'm sure someone will jump in and help out. Check the forum home page for links to restoration help. Hopefully you can do the repairs with the skin on. Will you have help or are you in this alone? Where are you located?

[cropper2]

Thanks for the encouraging words. May I borrow your husband for two days? I promise to return him.

No? I thought it might be worth a try. I'm on my own, then.

I really, really, really hope that I don't have to open the outside. It doesn't leak now and I don't want to open a new can of worms (truly no pun intended).

I am just outside of Annapolis, Maryland.

[65callie]

You can borrow my husband but you have to keep him. LOL just kidding. You should be able to fix it from the inside, I hope.

[Gone Kayaking]

Many, many, many of us have been in your shoes, and WE SURVIVED...or at least most of us have.

The screws or nails coming in are likely from the j or drip rail on the outside. The best thing to do is to remove the drip rail, skin and windows out in the area that you need to repair and work your way in on demo and then work your way out the other way...if that makes sense. The side and back skin panels come off fairly easily in most cases and will allow you to see if you have more issues higher up. Water/rot in a corner usually comes from somewhere higher and with the skin off you'll be able to better see that. You're going to want to re set the skin rail and windows properly anyway to assure yourself that there are no more ways for leaks rot to happen anyway.

Good luck, and just keep breathing and take lots of pictures/drawings and measurements so that you can put it back together again. The restoration threads on this forum are an excellent tutorial. That plus advice when I got stuck is how I did mine.

[boandsusan]

First thing I would do is build a "T" brace to go from the floor to the ceiling on both rear corners. This will prevent the walls from dropping while you replace that framing. Don`t panic! This is fixable. The screws you see are coming in from the outside. You`ll see them on the j rail (drip rail), on the outside corners. I`m afraid you`re gonna have to open the lower exterior skin(or at least remove the screws from the j rail), to replace the corner framing. Don`t let it intimidate you, there`s lots of help here on the forum.

[Gone Kayaking]

definitely agree on bracing...I didn't do that and had to jack up one side later to fix.

[boandsusan]

May 5, 2012 22:46:06 GMT -5 Gone Kayaking said:

definitely agree on bracing...I didn't do that and had to jack up one side later to fix.

Me too . Thats why its the first thing that comes to mind when I see rot in corners. Its one mistake that I will NEVER make again!

[cropper2]

One of my neighbors stopped by this morning to take a look. The short version of the story is that he is considering having me committed. Weenie!!!!

Does anyone know if there is a place on the forum to find someone in my area who might be willing to help me? I'd sure feel better about it if there were someone who had at least SOME experience doing this sort of thing.

I'm going to search the forum for the "T" bracket that you've mentioned. Or if you have seen a photo of it somewhere on here, let me know, please.

As always, thanks!!!

[schweetcruisers]

The t brace is really easy to make, take two 2x4's, cut one to about 3' and the other 1 1/2" short of the interior height of the trailer. Center and nail or screw the 3' piece flat to top of the longer one, it should look like a "t". Now take the brace into the trailer, stand it up right so it's resting on a ceiling bow. If its loose take some shims and wedge them it to take up the gap. If its too long cut it down until its just bearly fits, if it applies to much pressure it could damage the trailer. This will hold the ceiling and wall up right when you start taking the skin and paneling off.

[cropper2]

OK. I get it. Thanks!!

[cropper2]

Oh joy, happy Shasta Campers!! Today I located the source of the water leak (or at least one of them, should there be more than one). Wasn't hard to find. There is a 4" section of the metal strip along the top "corner" of the rear that shows no caulking of any kind or barrier between it and the skin. One minute with the hose demonstrated the issue.

So, having discovered all of this rot and water damage yesterday, I was determined to make a very productive day of it today and removed all of the window strips (no idea what to call the 1/2" pieces around the edges of the windows on the interior), cushions, bench tops and what not. I then wanted to see how far the water damage went in that evil back corner. Guess what? It does all of the way to the floor. No surprise there. But wait! There's more!! Guess what else I found? Ready? TERMITES! Oh yeah. No kidding. Oh boy! Oh boy! In truth, I didn't find any actual termites, but they've been there and they were hungry. Interestingly, if you look to the left of where the wall is cut away, you'll see that the wooden strip is very yellow. It can't be that old.

I'm almost afraid to go out and see what I find after lunch. Does this mean that I have to take off the side skin also? I'm about to get scared. Hopefully someone out there in the forum lives in the Annapolis, Maryland area and will be willing to come lend me a hand.

Jiminy H. Crickets!!

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[cropper2]

A view of the whole back corner now. I still have to get all of the way to the floor, but those braces are so squishy, I'm afraid I'll do more damage if I keep breaking away the walls.

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[cropper2]

Oh! And Atomic Addiction was good enough to move my posts into this forum (as I had incorrectly started this in the wrong place). Something tells me that I'm going to get hoisted again over the the Full Renovations section.

Tra la la la la!

[boandsusan]

Do you have your "t" props up? You may be able to replace the rot from the inside, but you have to free the framing up by removing the screws in the j rail from the outside. The material used to seal the corners (between exterior skin and j rail) is 3/4 inch butyl tape (putty tape). Not chalk! This tape is also used to seal the windows. I would remove the rear window as from the looks of the framing, the window is leaking. Windows are easy. Take all the screw out from the outside exterior edge. The whole window will slip out. Clean the back of the frame and put a fresh strip of putty tape all around the backside of the frame. Slip it back in the hole. As you replace the screws, the putty tape will seal the window to the exterior skin.

[harrison429]

Just in case you got confused...boandsusan meant to say 'Not Caulk'! Caulk is not the proper way to seal these trailers, you use butyl putty/tape. Deep breaths work wonders in amazing yourself at how handy you really can be and we're all here to help .

[boandsusan]

Thanks harrison429! I meant caulk. Brain cramp ........lol.

[cropper2]

I'll get my hands on a few gross of butyl tape, thanks.

No, I don't have the Ts up yet. Am I flirting with disaster? I'll stop at Home Depot on my way home from work tomorrow and get the lumber. I'm not sure where on the ceiling to put the top of the T, though. The whole ceiling is kinda curved. My guess is that I should put a T along one of the nail lines, as that is likely a stud. Is that right? Should I put one on each side (two Ts) or just one in the center?

AND THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR YOUR SUPPORT. I'm not a "freaking out" kinda gal, but the termite damage just about sent me over the edge with concern that I am out of my league on this. I really did find the leak to the corner, though, so that is truly good news.

[cropper2]

A question about the Ts.

Why am I making them 1.5 inches too short? Is it just so that I can maneuver them into place?

[cropper2]

Me again. Question about basic framing.

If you can just point me to the best place on the forum for this, swell.

The framing seems to support itself with huge staples. Is that some sort of special gun for a compressor? Is the frame supported by other parts of the frame? I'm trying to figure out to what I am going to affix the new frame parts. I can't really tell what to what it used to be affixed because so much has rotted away.

I'm sure there is a "basics of vintage trailer construction" post out there. I need live action. Maybe You Tube?

Have I said thank you lately? THANK YOU!

[cropper2]

Oh no!!!

I just watched a series of You Tube videos no Restoring a Shasta and now I get some of what you told me earlier. Shasta did not affix framework to itself; only to the paneling. So the paneling is load bearing. Yeeeeesh! I went back to re-read what I'd been told earlier that made no sense to me then. It sure does now! I'll make sure to hit Home Depot on the way home tomorrow to make some braces. But now I've also destroyed my "pattern" for that ripped out corner.

Good grief. I can just annoy the stuff out of myself sometimes.

[schweetcruisers]

ok this is what I used as a deadman brace. Its 40 bucks but its adjustable so as you move around the trailer you can adjust the height and pressure. You can pick them up locally at a Rockler or Woodcraft.

www.amazon.com/3rd-Hand-Support-System/dp/B000234J2A/ref=sr_1_12?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1336357334&sr=1-12

[cropper2]

Aha! Then I can move it as needed. Thanks.

[boandsusan]

Our framing was all 1 by 2s (which are connected together), so yes, the exterior skin and the interior panelling does give it strength. You have removed the interior panel and the frame is crumbling, so you really do need to brace it asap. You cut the up right 2x4, 1.5 inches shorter than the ceiling becauce the short length of 2x4 that you will be screwing to it is 1.5 inches thick. To rebuild the framing in that rotten rear corner, you can use the exterior skin as a guide. Our corners where really rotten also. Side wall framing goes right to the edge of the side wall exterior skin. Front and rear framing is about 1/2 inch shy of the rear and front skin because the skin on the front and rear, wraps around the side walls (under the j rail). DON`T remove the screws from the outside j rail,until your T supports are in. Once your supports are in, remove a few screws from the bottom of the j rail, ease the j rail up and take a peek. This will give you an idea of how the corners were assembled. You`ll prob feel a lot more comfortable once you understand how its all put together. It a very simple (and flimsy imo) design.

[cropper2]

Oh shoot. Now I feel stupid for asking the 1.5" question. I should have figured this out. Oh well, best to be stupid in a very public way, I suppose. We're all about transparency these days, right? Sheesh.

Thanks also for the additional help on how to do this next piece. My friend at work says that I have Shipwright's Disease - knowing when to stop with the work I'm doing right now. I figure that I HAVE to replace where framing is completely crumbled. I can always go back and do a full renovation later, but I really want to use it this summer. There is one more piece of paneling next to the door that is very squishy. I'm trying to decide if I should just be an ostrich and put my head in the ground until the fall or open up that place to see what is behind it now. I have the "Warring Stacias", one on each should. One is saying "Open it!". The other, of course, is saying "Don't be an idiot! Leave it alone for now."

Regardless, I'll get bracing up tonight.

[cropper2]

How about those huge staples? Is that a special gun for a compressor?

[boandsusan]

I don`t replace the staples! I use screws for the framing. Stronger and easier to aim lol. If you haven`t done much framing (or even if you have) you may find it much easier to buy a Jr Kreg(you tube it), as I found that 99% of the framing I had to do, required toe nailing/screwing.

[cropper2]

Ooooooo, Ahhhhhh!!! A new tool. I like it! Very useful. Again....thanks!