61 16sc - convert front gaucho to dinette?

[capecharlie]

Hi all.

My 61sc has the front gaucho instead of the dinette. (Not sure if the dinette was an option, or if the gaucho vs dinette is a matter of model year?)

I'm going to build a dinette instead, after repairing the rotten framing and birch (started digging into this yesterday; not too bad so far...)

Have any other 16sc owners done this? Any tips, lessons learned, build threads?

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

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[Deleted]

That is a fine-looking interior you have there. I like the character mark on the door...you know this ole girl avoided catastrophe at least once in her lifetime...

I'm not really sure what led them to build this with this setup, save for maybe more comfortable sleeping. The Airflyte models used the dinette setup in front. Originally the 16SC model had two tables that attached at either end of the gaucho, as well as one that attached to the rear wall (at the sofa in the rear).
I haven't done what you are planning to do, but just a word...I just took out the dinette frame in the front of my Airflyte so as to get to the walls under those side dinette windows and all their glorious legacy of rot...Most of the framework was screwed down to the floorboards with 2" wood screws, but there were three screws on each side which came through the front panel, installed from the outside. You'll probably encounter this also on either end of the face frame under the gaucho. It's probably a good idea for the structure to install your new frame with some anchors from the outside as well, but in either case it would require removing the lower side skins and the front skin panel. (If you have the rot under the windows in the front corners to fix, this is really not a big deal since they gotta come off for that anyways.)

[capecharlie]

Thanks Chris. I still have all three tables, fortunately. I'm thinking about attaching the wall brackets to the exterior and using them under the awning (that I ope to have one day.). I've seen some 16sc owners with the dinette, but unsure if they're original or not.

I already removed the gaucho and the birch. Lots of old screws! The skins will come off next -- definitely will be replacing some framing soon. The side windows leaked pretty badly.

Yes, the scorch mark on the door is from a lantern -- glad they caught it before it did more damage than that!

[Deleted]

Someone recently advised leaving one or the other intact...if you have the interior wall open, do what framing you can before removing the skins. It will help hold its shape and dimensions so everything will fit properly.

I like the idea of the outdoor tables. I have been working that into my plans for my Compact. The wall brackets should mount fine and they would be a great addition to the outdoor use. I have to wonder about the dinette dimensions also, if one of them could be used in the new design.

Just out of curiosity, what was underneath the gaucho? I was thinking the water holding tank might be in the front, but think it was in the rear instead. (The Airflyte has it under the streetside dinette frame.) That seems like it would have been the largest problem with redesigning the front end if it were there...

[schweetcruisers]

I know on the Astrodome's with this layout there is huge steel water tank, the one you have to pump up with a bicycle pump to pressurize it. Having said that you'll probably have to update your plumbing system to a modern tank and electric pump if you have the big steel tank.

[Hamlet]

Chris is right. The frame is incredibly flimsy all alone. We took our Compact down to the chassis. Built a "workbench" with four sawhorses and a couple sheets of plywood and rebuilt the frame on that surface. Even with the birch attached, it took two of us to get the sides to the trailer floor. We supported them until we could do the crossbeams on the ceiling. THAT is what made it rigid. These little guys were mass produced, the chassis, floor, flooring, then the walls (with paneling) and crossbeams, ceiling front and back paneling, "furniture", wiring and plumbing, insulation, then skin. Addition of the cupboards and beds also contributes to the stability.

Despite the fact that they were pretty inexpensively built, it's pretty amazing that so many of them have lasted half a century or more. Pretty ingenious design that would allow them to be pulled by the family Buick Special.

[crunchy]

The PO of my 16SC replaced the original dinette with a newly constructed setup. But I don't care for the front dinette so I'm doing the opposite and removing it to install a gaucho.

[mrvdmbfan]

I have this exact same layout and have been wanting a Dinette as well over the Gaucho, I think I would use it more, esp for playing games, and dining in the camper. I would love to see what you end up doing, as I will be starting my demo in April to get it ready for May camping. Can I contact you possibly for help if needed?

[Deleted]

I am just at the stage of removing the dinette framing from the Airflyte, be glad to share measurements if it will help.

[capecharlie]

I'll be sure to post pictures one I get under way with the dinette (and will be sure to take the above advice about tying into structure, etc). I'm only on the demo phase so far...

Thanks!

[capecharlie]

I do have the big steel tank, by the way. It won't fit in the new configuration, so ill have to go with a new poly tank when the time comes.

[Gone Kayaking]

Unless you are going to do long long trips away from water sources, a smaller poly tank that fits under the sides of one of the dinette benches will be plenty.

[oldglory]

I am restoring a '61 sc right now. I am not fond of the set up either but I guess it makes sense if you plan to eat outside. Not so good for playing cards on the rainy days. Curious, what is the third table that you refer to?

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Don't take this as gospel, but I believe in some of the configurations at least, there were two tables, one at each end of the front gaucho. They were anchored to the side walls and pivoted up out of the way. There was a third one that hung from the rear wall and came in front of the side sofa, kinda in between the sofa and the bathroom closet.

[oldglory]

Now that you mention it there was a piece of wood like the one at the front that I took off the back wall right where you describe. Like one that you find in a Shasta with a front dinette and the table slides into the other metal holder. I have to take a second look at it and see if it has holes where the table holder would have been attached at one time. that is if I can find it in my mountain of disassembled pieces and parts!

[schweetcruisers]

Crw2620 is correct, the 16-sc with the double gaucho couches had 3 tables, the third one was mounted to the rear wall under the window.

[schweetcruisers]

You can see it...kinda here, the scans are not the greatest!

vintageshasta.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=downloadattachmentpage&board=specification&thread=255&post=8766

[oldglory]

Thanks for sharing that scan. I see it!

Great!! One more thing to add to the list of things to buy or build!!

[cowcharge]

Why is it called a gaucho?

[capecharlie]

I got lucky and found someone local who was parting out a 59 Airflyte! I now have a set of original dinette frames/springs to work with. I hope to tear them down soon (they're a mess) and begin building them back up.

The seller has some very usable items at very fair prices, including what appears to be an original screen door. I'll also post his Craigslist ad in the for sale section: boston.craigslist.org/sob/rvs/3742714028.html

[familyof6]

We were wondering where the 3 table we found in ours went! I just keep learning new things every day We also plan to convert our front guacho (been caling it a bench all this time) into a two seat dinette area with a fold down table in the middle like in the Airflyte. Our water tank has been long removed so we have to check to see were to put a new one.

[familyof6]

Jan 14, 2013 12:58:00 GMT -5 Hamlet said:

Chris is right. The frame is incredibly flimsy all alone. We took our Compact down to the chassis. Built a "workbench" with four sawhorses and a couple sheets of plywood and rebuilt the frame on that surface. Even with the birch attached, it took two of us to get the sides to the trailer floor. We supported them until we could do the crossbeams on the ceiling. THAT is what made it rigid. These little guys were mass produced, the chassis, floor, flooring, then the walls (with paneling) and crossbeams, ceiling front and back paneling, "furniture", wiring and plumbing, insulation, then skin. Addition of the cupboards and beds also contributes to the stability.

Despite the fact that they were pretty inexpensively built, it's pretty amazing that so many of them have lasted half a century or more. Pretty ingenious design that would allow them to be pulled by the family Buick Special.

Hamlet, are you saying you built your side framing so that they became one giant piece of frame and then you moved it to the trailer floor in one large piece? I'm trying to visualize it..

[capecharlie]

Jan 15, 2013 19:05:19 GMT -5 @chris2620 said:

I am just at the stage of removing the dinette framing from the Airflyte, be glad to share measurements if it will help.

Hi Chris. Hoping to revive this thread. I've done all the framing in the front of my 61sc and I'm getting ready to start building the dinette and table. I've found posts about table dimensions and height, but I think some of the old threads that may have contained dimensions for the dinette have been lost in some of our photo issues.p

If you have any of this info handy, I'd live to know what the correct height and construction of the dinette was/is. I did score some original seat frames with springs that ill be using.

Thanks for any device you can offer!

[Deleted]

Hey charlie, been thinking of you recently. I believe you are right about the photo issues, and I am trying ti get time to organize them and re-furbish the posts. I do have the measurements hidden away here someplace...I'll get on it asap so as to help out....

[capecharlie]

May 9, 2013 20:15:10 GMT -5 @chris2620 said:

Hey charlie, been thinking of you recently. I believe you are right about the photo issues, and I am trying ti get time to organize them and re-furbish the posts. I do have the measurements hidden away here someplace...I'll get on it asap so as to help out....

Thanks Chris!

[Deleted]

They're back.

vintageshasta.proboards.com/thread/7851/page/1/measurements-dinette-64-airflyte

[capecharlie]

May 10, 2013 16:14:01 GMT -5 @chris2620 said:

They're back.

vintageshasta.proboards.com/thread/7851/page/1/measurements-dinette-64-airflyte

Thanks Chris. That helps a lot!

[mrvdmbfan]

Capecharlie,

Did you get this completed yet?
I'm going to be working on mine tomorrow, tearing out the gaucho...any tips or tricks? Going to take out the gaucho and replace the front panels....and hopefully get the door done as well.

Thanks!