safetybruce
2K Post Member
Miss Alabama 1961
Posts: 2,547
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Post by safetybruce on Jul 24, 2010 0:13:30 GMT -5
Hi ForumMembers, Thought I would submit something under this heading to get the ball rolling. I researched a number of articles regarding small solar powered systems for cabins/off-the-grid living. I thought articles by Jeffery Yago were excellent. His Internet profile says..."Jeffrey Yago is a licensed professional engineer and certified energy manager, with over 25 years experience in the design of solar and backup power systems throughout the United States and Europe..." He is considered by many in the field as an expert in photovoltaic systems design and application. I contacted him by e-mail, and he was gracious enough to respond to my inquiry about the feasibility of installing roof mounted solar panels on my Compact to operate an off-the-grid type of electrical system that included such amenities as small fridge and possibly even air-conditioning. He said that he believed the weight of even the lightest would require more weight in the panels and storage batteries than my Compact could handle, not to mention the fact that the panels would probably require angling when in use, and what a gust of wind could do. He suggested that a system could probably be designed that would allow the batteries to be stored in the bed of the truck I tow the Compact with, and a solar panel that can be fitted into the bed while towing, and then pole mounted once I chose my campsite would be the direction he suggests I go if I really wanted to go solar. He also mentioned the cost of solar operated items such as the fridge and ac. He finished by saying that at this time, he would suggest that the types of generator/propane systems in use for RV's continues to be the most feasible system, unless I just wanted to use a solar panel or two to charge and top off a couple deep cycle 12-volt batteries to run a minimum of 12-volt items like lights, a fan and one of those 12-volt coolers that plug into the cigarette lighter. This might save some Forum members some research time trying to figure out how they can electrify their Shastas by solar power with enough juice to run all the fancy equipment normally run off a noisy generator that uses fuel and leaves a hydrocarbon foot print.
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Post by nelsontoddpa on Jul 24, 2010 15:51:29 GMT -5
I can't say that I do any off the grid camping but I use a solar panel mounted inside of a side window with double sided foam tape to keep my battery charged ($40 at Wal Mart). It does a great job and even when I leave my 12 volt porch light on all night it charges the battery back to full even on a cloudy day.
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safetybruce
2K Post Member
Miss Alabama 1961
Posts: 2,547
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Post by safetybruce on Jul 26, 2010 2:35:10 GMT -5
It would be a good test to see if one of those panels from Wal-Mart could run a couple inside 12 volt lights and one of those 12 volt dash mount fans that plug into the cigarette lighter socket for the eveing, fan over night. Might be a good application. Will look for one at Wal-Mart and a fan, and see if it will work. We employ big floating bouys that are lighted all night to mark the exclusion zone around the floating Marine Terminal I work on, and a solar panel not as big as the side window on the '61 Compact keeps those lights burning brightly all night even when we have cloud cover all day. Thanks for the comment.
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Post by popeye on Oct 16, 2010 4:57:33 GMT -5
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safetybruce
2K Post Member
Miss Alabama 1961
Posts: 2,547
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Post by safetybruce on Oct 16, 2010 9:31:33 GMT -5
popeye, cool kit, worth consideration...thanks for the heads up and the thread!
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Post by Bow_Tied on Oct 16, 2010 19:50:15 GMT -5
I have considered solar panels before just for small stuff like a light or topping up a battery. I had an idea to create a front window rock guard that flipped up to reveal a solar panel when camping. However one major issue haunts me: I hate camping in direct sunlight, I want to relax in the shade. Kinda makes solar difficult. Maybe I can get some small wind generators....lol
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Post by effierover on Oct 18, 2010 8:57:59 GMT -5
Dang! Going through renovation blogs on the web, I remember seeing a compact with a solar panel installed. It was a little bigger than the potty closet (maybe 2'x3') and installed almost directly over it. I think the mounts were moved to go directly into the uprights for the closet (that should provide support). Was used to trickle charge a battery for led lighting and a radio inside. Can't find it ... but I know I saw it and the person was actively using the camper following renovation. Will keep looking ... google it and you might get luckier than me.
Man, I gotta get organized...
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Post by effierover on Oct 22, 2010 8:01:04 GMT -5
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Post by hoppydawg on Nov 29, 2010 20:40:35 GMT -5
I know it is probably overkill, but if you do a search for "Safari Condo", they have solar as an option for their new modern teardrop trailers. Beautiful, but pricey and only sold in Canada. I'll take a $40 solar panel and give it a whirl.
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Post by hoppydawg on Dec 1, 2010 10:11:31 GMT -5
REply from the Safari Condo folks in Quebec? Hi M Kramer we use 2 different technology the installed price for the flexible panel is 795$ for 68watts and 1495$ for 136w. For rigid panel 995$ for 85w and 1695$ for 170w. Yes it is possible to sell the parts only. Daniel Nadeau
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Post by sparky1 on Dec 21, 2010 12:36:15 GMT -5
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Gone Kayaking
1K Post Member
long live the Vintage Shasta Trailer Forum....we're gone but you are not forgotten!
Posts: 1,600
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Post by Gone Kayaking on Mar 6, 2011 11:48:01 GMT -5
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safetybruce
2K Post Member
Miss Alabama 1961
Posts: 2,547
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Post by safetybruce on Jun 23, 2011 0:31:27 GMT -5
My Travelo has a rubberized mat on the whole roof area...even OVER the rear vent...lol...looks to be sealed pretty well. Only water intrusion I have seen is a drip from that rear vent in a heavy rain...now the top rubberized protective cover is covered by a heavy duty tarp, while the trailer awaits my attention. Heavy rains produce no new drip since the tarp was added. I think putting anything including this type of solar panel on a camper roof is possibly going to prevent you from seeing a low spot develop that might become a rain and wind driven rain catcher. Personally I don't think the roof of vintage campers was designed for anything but paint and vents and we know even putting them in/on introduced moisture point of entry opportunities rain simply could not ignore.
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Gone Kayaking
1K Post Member
long live the Vintage Shasta Trailer Forum....we're gone but you are not forgotten!
Posts: 1,600
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Post by Gone Kayaking on Jun 23, 2011 9:21:11 GMT -5
Hey Bruce I'm going to get a 20V photo voltaic trickle charger with a long wire that can be moved wherever it makes sense to start with. They are fairly affordable, and should greatly extend my Grp 24's when we are boondocked. Which is going to be more and more often given the worsening ratio of camper restoration budget to vacation budget. Not that I mind a bit, would prefer to be pulled off on some national forest land than in an RV park any old day.
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safetybruce
2K Post Member
Miss Alabama 1961
Posts: 2,547
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Post by safetybruce on Jun 23, 2011 23:55:02 GMT -5
Gone Kayaking...that would be my solution...Yago, in our correspondence did mention that he has had similar inquiries such as mine, and he felt travelling speed/winds on anything mounted on the roof and the vibrations and torque on a camper will eventually lead to loosening of whatever anchors the solar collector, and suggested the portable trickle charger positioned toward the sun would be a good alternative, unless I was planning on being a full timer and was going to be putting pretty continuous demands on a 12v system, and if that was the case go to that collector mounted in the bed of my truck option, collector up and positioned when camping...down and out of the wind with no strain on the mounting mechanism when travelling.
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Post by Julie, 1965 Compact on Jun 26, 2011 1:21:27 GMT -5
Hi, all. New to the Forum. I'm no engineer, but I agree with safetybruce, that any opening in the roof will likely lead to more water intrusion. Here's a source for portable power and it looks to be a little less expensive. In the interested of being off the grid, this may be another solution to the long solar rolls or heavy panels. Saw demo at food warehouse recently, and they seem very legit. Hope this helps: www.goalzero.com/ I intend to do the same, but just got my 'Wendy' and need to do basic repairs before worrying about some of the 'accessories.'
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Gone Kayaking
1K Post Member
long live the Vintage Shasta Trailer Forum....we're gone but you are not forgotten!
Posts: 1,600
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Post by Gone Kayaking on Jun 26, 2011 8:39:35 GMT -5
Looks like a cool set up and the price is great for all of that. I just got a group 24 deep cell agm, the inverter, and charger, so I won't be going for the power pack (wish had seen this before) but when I add a solar panel to the mix...this will definitely be one I look at.
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Post by universalexports on Jun 26, 2011 10:39:55 GMT -5
Harbor Freight markets a 45w kit for the $150-175 range ($200list) it had three 15W panels and a controller Generally you can find a 400w inverter for $40 and deepcycle #27 batteries for about $70 Downside is the minimal power 0.3kW on a good day of sun isnt really much But its a start and you can expand by adding another panel kit to your existing set-up... You can get there, even starting with baby steps!
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Hamlet
2K Post Member
Posts: 2,241
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Post by Hamlet on Nov 9, 2011 20:51:52 GMT -5
I'm reading all of the posts with interest, but I guess I am a little naive, because I can't imagine what I'd use this for. We have a three LCD lights and the very occasional use of the water pump for the shower. It seems like overkill for just those two. What other things are people using electricity or the 12 volt system for?
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61 Shasta
100 Post Member
Chuck's Waggin
Posts: 194
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Post by 61 Shasta on Feb 6, 2012 0:31:30 GMT -5
Georgesymond, 500 watts of solar power is a considerable amount of solar energy to deal with. In todays world, I would suggest you contact your power supply company for assistance. There are such things as "0" energy metering which means that anything you generate over what you are using is passed back into the grid as a power savings and you are credited for that amount on your monthly billing. It certainly won't offset the amount of energy that would be consumed by 30 computers on line at any one time but it would be a start. Good luck! And please, contact your power company for assistance. By the way, I have no affiliation with a power company.
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vikx
3K Post Member
Posts: 3,556
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Post by vikx on Feb 6, 2012 2:03:40 GMT -5
Don't click on the LINK....
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Post by mamasherb on Feb 6, 2012 14:03:48 GMT -5
Which link?
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vikx
3K Post Member
Posts: 3,556
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Post by vikx on Feb 7, 2012 0:20:26 GMT -5
Maybe it's just me, but I felt the Colorado and Maryland Solar Panel links were a bit odd. Better safe than sorry.
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Post by joecamper on Feb 16, 2012 9:31:22 GMT -5
I have an older friend that goes down to Fla for 6 months a year and boondocks the entire time out of a Dodge conversion van. 1.5 month at bradenton beach 3 mo key west and back to bradenton.
Without any generator.
And he did not spend a lot of doe.
He has 2 very very old 15 watt panels up on his roof hiddin by what looks like a luggage rack. He bought a 750watt inverter (guessing on not too large but enough) This is a very inexpensive modified sine wave that you often hear many warnings about this is why I mention this story. After 3 yr the 19in flat screen, satalite and dish box have had no failures as a result.
There are 3 flooded wet cell batts in a compartment he constructed and vented out. A knife disconnect and a charge controler.
He is in Key West so all that sun combined with what little he drives around has proven sufficiant enough to recharge the bank.
This set up affords him the pleasure of enough power for satalite tv every evening untill falling asleep. And that would be 4 things drawing on the batts for 4 or 5 hr. The TV, The dish box, the satalite (he spent money here and has the flush square low profile dish it hides behind the luggage rack with the panels), and, the inverter itself. The inverter would actually be the biggest of the draws. (thats why its good to get "just the right size" bigger is not nessessarily better.
Power managment is how you successfully opporate any design.
So thats what 2 15w panels and 3 batts with a Pep Boys special 750 watt inverter will do in the real world.
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Post by missblossom on Feb 22, 2012 23:57:02 GMT -5
I used to have a Little Guy Teardrop that the previous owner installed a Solar panel on top. It was great. It had a wheelchair battery. I had it for 4yrs and never had to charge up the battery. We don't always have the best sun in Seattle, so I was very happy. I too would love to have one installed on my Shasta Compact.
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Post by geengrey on Apr 11, 2012 17:31:38 GMT -5
So glad to have found this post. My husband is just now looking into solar for our SOB (that sounds terrible-- we have an Oasis). We did see a lovely couple this past weekend with some sort of portable solar set up next to their teardrop. Wishing I had taken a picture now. So, how have any of your trial experiences gone? Would really love to have some solar options. Thanks!
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cowcharge
1K Post Member
I suffer from Shastasomiasis.
Posts: 1,471
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Post by cowcharge on Apr 12, 2012 13:01:38 GMT -5
Hey all, I spent two years installing home solar systems, and have been doing a lot of research and thinking about this for my own trailer. So, some thoughts and personal conclusions... To get any real efficiency you must to be able to tilt panels to match the sun's angle, so they would have to have some kind of hinged, rotatable mount (I've been doodling some ideas, but all my blueprints are still in my brain's lab). And even one leaf shading one cell drops the power output of all the other cells in the panel even if they're in direct sunlight, so it really needs to be clear out in the open, parking in even partial shade will hurt your generating capacity. With good fairings and a good locking mount, I doubt that wind would play that big a part when they're folded down for travelling, but I believe the roof would benefit from some beefing up, especially in a Compact. Those home-made 36-cell panels can be made very thin and light (and can be built for around $100 for a 60 watt panel, if you don't mind all the soldering), the weight is all in the frame and the glass and the tiltable mounting frame, so I think it's doable with the proper planning and materials, like building thin, lightweight frames and using Lexan instead of glass, but it would take a bit of design work, especially for the mounts. It could be done if the project was worth the effort to you, but I haven't seen any ready-to-go mounts for this purpose, so you'd have to build them yourself or get a machinist to do it. After carrying them up ladders, I'm convinced that panels made for the home would be much too heavy and bulky for anything other than a monster camper, like a bus conversion. Leaks? Eh, just another few screw holes to seal, just like any other screw holes, no real worries there. I saw one guy who ran the wires down through the fridge vent to avoid drilling another hole. On a Compact the roof real estate's pretty limited, and a portable system with a long cable would be the most flexible for siting (shade etc.), but if they're portable for you, they're portable for your neighbors too. You could, again, design a mount that would lock to any side of your camper like some people have for a portable grill or table, and store the panels inside while travelling... Maybe even a receiver hitch mount if you could always park the right way. The truck bed sounds like a good idea if you can always park it in the sun, but then it would have to be disconnected while you were out sightseeing, unless the batteries and everything else were in the truck too, with a cord to plug into the trailer. Which would mean you couldn't leave anything running in the camper while you were gone, unless you had more batteries in the camper, making a more complicated system. But if you drive somewhere and leave the spouse in the camper, that might be necessary. The advantage to having the batteries in the truck is that you could install an isolator switch, so that the truck alternator charges the batteries when you're driving. As for what you need for panels, the big question for anyone is can the solar system replace what you use each day, allowing for a rainy-day fudge factor. The equation has your usage at one end, and your battery bank and solar panels at the other. Without considering budget, the smartest way is to start at the lifestyle end of the equation, so that your system accommodates your requirements, rather than starting with a fixed battery or panel size, and altering your lifestyle to fit within your power generating/storing capacity. If you start with a particular battery or solar system, then you have to decide how to use your limited amp-hours to survive, like Gary Sinise in the simulator in Apollo 13. "Well we can either run the coffee maker for an hour a day or cook microwave popcorn once a week", that kind of thing. Some might think that a fun part of camping, but I'm planning to full-time, so I'm starting at the other end. So start with your projected consumption, i.e. you need your furnace for 6 hours a day at 4 amps, which = 24 amp-hours out of your battery per day, just for the furnace. Since you rarely get more than 6 hours of good sunlight in a day, you would need a solar panel(s) and charge controller that can put out more than 4 amps on a sunny day just to replace the juice used by the furnace, plus a bit for electrical losses. Which means your panel and charge controller would need to put out at least 4 amps at 13-14v= 56 watts (+- depending on the charge voltage), just for the furnace. You need to add up every other appliance's consumption in amps or watts and time running in the same way to get the total size of the system needed to avoid using a generator, including the size of the battery bank needed to store that many amp-hours, and providing for rainy days. To ram 20 amps into a battery for a reasonably fast bulk charge, you need 20 A x 14v = 280 watts coming out of your charge controller. I've figured that in order to live like I wasn't camping, that I would probably need about 5 or 6 60-watters to come close to eliminating the generator. But again, I'm going to full-time. One of those 45-watt panels, putting out 3 or 4 amps for 6 hours, would only cover two 12v bulbs used for 6 hours a day... Watts = amps x volts, there are tags on the back of every appliance that state their usage. Modern LCD TVs don't use that much, Sylvania claims 70 watts AC for an Energy Star-rated 22" flatscreen, hardly more than a regular light bulb. But that means .58 amps AC, which means 5.8-7 amps DC from the battery (it takes 10-12 amps DC to get 1 amp AC out of an inverter). So 7 amps off your battery for 4 hours of TV a night equals 28 amp-hours of battery storage per day for the TV that needs to be generated to keep the charge up. Which means another 4.7 amps for 6 hours out out of your solar panels. That means you'd need 9 amps out of your panels to keep up with the TV and the furnace, meaning 108 watts. Add another 24 watts for every 12v ceiling light bulb that you use for 6 hours a day. You get the idea. By adding up the amp-hours required to run every appliance every day, you can calculate the total charging capacity needed to replace the power they use, whether it's by generator, solar panel, or a combination of both. You could get away with smaller panels and make up the difference with reduced generator use, so every little bit of solar helps... LED lights don't use much, but old 12v bulbs take 2 amps DC each in my camper. Plain electronics aren't bad, it's the stuff with motors, electromagnets and heating elements that'll get you, like water pumps, A/C, microwave, coffee makers and toaster ovens. Hair dryers are killers. I have a Xantrex 1000-watt inverter that I got off Ebay for $70 that works great, and it's not a pure sine wave. Haven't found anything that it won't run yet, including my power drill, shop vac, big old CRT TV and my desktop computer. From what I've read, it's battery chargers for things like cordless tools that need the pure-sine wave inverters the most. Hope some of this helps...
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cowcharge
1K Post Member
I suffer from Shastasomiasis.
Posts: 1,471
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Post by cowcharge on Apr 12, 2012 13:20:42 GMT -5
I know its hard to maintain solar panel Colorado equipment but anyway I have to do it. I just bought a 500watt solar panel from a company and want to install it at my house roof but I don’t know how to put all things together but company mechanics helped me in fixing my problem. I want to know how much power it can generate for one day because my work is on computer and I have around 30 computers which absorb a lot of power. Therefore I bought solar panel to reduce some expenses. solar panels coloradoFor a home setup that's tied to the grid (and not just used when the power goes out), you need a grid-tie inverter, which combines the panel juice with the power company's juice, and which is very expensive, and must be installed by a certified pro. And we'd need to know the output voltage of the panel to know how many amps that would generate, before we could make any practical assessment of its capabilities. My old boss has a 3 or 4kw grid-tie system on his house I think, which eliminates all but the minimum-to-remain-connected electric bill in the summer, something like $7 per month. Somewhere around $30,000 installed...
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kmlisle
New Member
Ernestine
Posts: 34
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Post by kmlisle on Aug 23, 2012 20:57:03 GMT -5
Question for you Cowcharger, We have a friend who is a solar tech and are starting the planning process for a limited system that would recharge phones and computers (2 each) power a small fan and some lights. She thought that solar thin film would be the way to go on our trailer roof although we did discuss a portable system as well - had not thought about theft. My question is how to prep the roof of a Loflyte for adhering solar thin film panels to it and would this cause problems for future maintenance? Of course with them stuck to the roof the problem remains of how to park in the shade and keep the solar cells working at a reasonable efficiency. (sigh!)
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